Clowns to the Left of Me, Jokers to the Right
Does anyone remember being
young? I remember..I remember feeling attraction to girls. I remember even
having a "girlfriend" - you know- put a little note in her desk saying
"I like you - do you like me" type of girlfriend. I loved her short, brown,
bouncy hair. She was cute, she was fun...she was my first crush. Of
course, I was 7 so such young love was
innocent. I also remember about the
same age being with my neighbor, my best
friend - a boy- "I show you, you show me"
in his backyard shed. That too was innocent. As I grew up there was always that unexplained duplicity and confusion: how can I liked girls but have this strange interest in boys? In high school, I certainly admired other hot girls and could chat with my buddies about them. We could check them out together, and when I got to college I had the reputation of being quite the ladies man. Yet, despite the brash, cocky attitude that everyone saw, inside I was torn. Yes, I jumped from one girls bed to another, was the "campus whore" but I hid a secret nobody knew - my eyes always wandered to the boys.
But, damn, I wasn't gay - because being gay means I should
be artistic or flamboyant or feminine or, yes some would say "swishy". But I wasn't any of those things so how could
I be gay? I was into hanging with
"my bros", drinking, smoking pot, sports. I had little in common with
those "fags" - which added to the confusion.
You see Frat Star
isn't much different from me when I was young. He's brash, cocky, conceited, and until recently when he came out - deep down
he was completely confused on which side of the isle he should stand. I don't think I'm completely straight because
I'm thinking about guys, but, I can't be gay because look that that group over there! Where do I fit in? I'm not Kurt from Glee and societies definition of the gay person being a man in drag makes me equally repulsed. I'm neither. Can you tell me someone out there has never felt that way?
Being young and confused is depressing, troubling, and is full of peer pressure. When everyone else is making plans for the Prom, you're wondering whether inviting a girl is the best choice or whether not going is the better option.
Frat Star makes some amazing points in his Manifesto. He describes the tumult of being bi incredibly well:
- the pressure of pleasing your parents and relatives: "If I came out publicly my old man would die of shame – his old army buddies wouldn’t approve – while my mom would encourage me to buy some queer condo in a rapidly gentrifying neighborhood so I could live with my “life partner.”"
- the wonder if you will be accepted by your friends: "Isn’t college supposed to be the time where you make mistakes, where you experience new emotions and feelings, where you try on a bunch of new things to find out who you really are and then you make an educated decision as to who you really are? No, that is a lie, a goddamned lie."
I find it hard to believe that others out there, gay, bi, trans..anyone who is different in any way hasn't wondered if their sexuality would be accepted by their family, friends, peers.
I love the way Frat Star has used metaphors to describe his journey (his first taste of alcohol, the organized chaos of a turbulent airplane ride). He also describes how an experiment with the same sex shouldn't relegate you to being gay. "You feel guilty as fuck and want to rip your guts out for being different. You look at your folks, who aren’t perfect, but see that they’re pretty happy with what they’ve got in life. You want that. You look at your girlfriend and see how dedicated she is to you. You want to give her that back. You look at your boys and see them running up and down the crease with you. You want to “defend this house” with them."
Has no one out there looked around the plane wondering if they're going to survive the flight only to see the different reactions on board..from the calm seasoned traveler to the frantic soccer Mom? It's almost impossible to explain to someone what it is like to be bi. Yet Frat Star's metaphor is ingeniousness in breaking that impossibility.
Frat understands that the bisexual population is a hidden "disease" of society. Now you see "ED" commercials for Erectile Dysfunction (but more commonly known as people who can't get it up) or "IBS" for Irritable Bowel Syndrome (or people who shit their pants) - all previously little discussed embarrassing conditions. But, being bi still is a pox on society..one that no one wants to admit much less discuss. That keeps our group searching for relief in bookstores, glory-holes, bathrooms and on line. It makes the foot tapping of a Senator in a bathroom headline news in America. As Frat Star says: "It’s the most complicated form of sexuality because there aren’t any firm rules about sex in our own minds. We aren’t completely straight nor are we gay. Instead bi kids fall somewhere in an uncomfortable middle and that is where the criticism begins."
Why is Frat's piece so important? Because, coming from a young man, it defines the mentality of a confused young man with amazing preciseness:
Does Frat Star make mistakes? Yes, we all do, except of course the pious Anonymous criticizers of my blog who are impervious to human imperfections. Will he piss off some with his assertive, self-confidence? Absolutely. But, again, he's a young, smart, handsome, alpha male. It's funny, despite his bravado, ultimately, he wants what you want, what we all want: acceptance and internal peace.
Frat's chosen a side even though he doesn't conform with the majority. After some confusion about his sexuality, he now says he's gay, even though his wardrobe doesn't contain fuchsia. Even though going to the Gay Pride parade in a boa and bikini isn't in his future. He breaks the mold of what society deems "gay" by being himself and for that realization we should all be thankful. Because being bisexual, being gay, being a lesbian, being a transgender..cannot be defined in a pretty little box. Sexuality isn't always as clear as a check box on a census form.
That's why I love Frat Star because when I was young I was like him. Yes, a little arrogant but still confused. Thankfully he's intelligent enough to choose a better path for his life than me. That doesn't mean we still don't have commonalities. He's traveled a rocky path and most likely hasn't reached his ultimate destination. He should be lauded for sharing his feelings and thoughts here on my blog.
I'm thankful that he has expressed himself here, despite the animosity some of you have laid on him for exposing himself and for showing us his vulnerable side. Yes, some of you are no better than the bullies that you despise. I for one am happy that I can count Frat Star as a colleague, a friend and more importantly, Bi Like
Me.
I love the way Frat Star has used metaphors to describe his journey (his first taste of alcohol, the organized chaos of a turbulent airplane ride). He also describes how an experiment with the same sex shouldn't relegate you to being gay. "You feel guilty as fuck and want to rip your guts out for being different. You look at your folks, who aren’t perfect, but see that they’re pretty happy with what they’ve got in life. You want that. You look at your girlfriend and see how dedicated she is to you. You want to give her that back. You look at your boys and see them running up and down the crease with you. You want to “defend this house” with them."
Has no one out there looked around the plane wondering if they're going to survive the flight only to see the different reactions on board..from the calm seasoned traveler to the frantic soccer Mom? It's almost impossible to explain to someone what it is like to be bi. Yet Frat Star's metaphor is ingeniousness in breaking that impossibility.Frat understands that the bisexual population is a hidden "disease" of society. Now you see "ED" commercials for Erectile Dysfunction (but more commonly known as people who can't get it up) or "IBS" for Irritable Bowel Syndrome (or people who shit their pants) - all previously little discussed embarrassing conditions. But, being bi still is a pox on society..one that no one wants to admit much less discuss. That keeps our group searching for relief in bookstores, glory-holes, bathrooms and on line. It makes the foot tapping of a Senator in a bathroom headline news in America. As Frat Star says: "It’s the most complicated form of sexuality because there aren’t any firm rules about sex in our own minds. We aren’t completely straight nor are we gay. Instead bi kids fall somewhere in an uncomfortable middle and that is where the criticism begins."
Why is Frat's piece so important? Because, coming from a young man, it defines the mentality of a confused young man with amazing preciseness:
"Being bisexual is not like a menstruation cycle, as some people would
suggest, where I’m a “normal” kid for 29 days and then on the 30th I
turn into a “faggot.” This is not a Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde situation. Nor is
it because I have a hyperactive sex drive and my promiscuity just overflows
from girls into dudes. The problem with bisexual kids is that they value the
person and they derive their sexual attraction from their individual connection
with a person. Instead of lumping our emotional and sexual attractions
together, they are entirely separate. Our penis may lead one way and our heart
may lead the other. Society hates this. They want to tell us that we’re wrong
because they don’t understand how we work. This is the worst thing possible for
young male bisexuals, because they can’t fight back against an ingrained
system. No wonder identifying as bisexual is a terrifying prospect for most
young men."

Does Frat Star make mistakes? Yes, we all do, except of course the pious Anonymous criticizers of my blog who are impervious to human imperfections. Will he piss off some with his assertive, self-confidence? Absolutely. But, again, he's a young, smart, handsome, alpha male. It's funny, despite his bravado, ultimately, he wants what you want, what we all want: acceptance and internal peace.
Frat's chosen a side even though he doesn't conform with the majority. After some confusion about his sexuality, he now says he's gay, even though his wardrobe doesn't contain fuchsia. Even though going to the Gay Pride parade in a boa and bikini isn't in his future. He breaks the mold of what society deems "gay" by being himself and for that realization we should all be thankful. Because being bisexual, being gay, being a lesbian, being a transgender..cannot be defined in a pretty little box. Sexuality isn't always as clear as a check box on a census form.
That's why I love Frat Star because when I was young I was like him. Yes, a little arrogant but still confused. Thankfully he's intelligent enough to choose a better path for his life than me. That doesn't mean we still don't have commonalities. He's traveled a rocky path and most likely hasn't reached his ultimate destination. He should be lauded for sharing his feelings and thoughts here on my blog.













27 comments:
BLM:
Great post and thanks for adding Frat Star to the mix. You are correct that he is young and I am sure some of his views will evolve over time. He seems to be a good example of how the "face" of gay has changed. As you said many of us don't indentify with "Kurt from Glee" gay. Even though society had come a long way recently with acceptance- when you say "I am gey" most people automatically go to the "swishy" sterotype. Of course any stereotype is created because people generalize based on limited knowledge or exposure. More guys who come out like Frat Star help change the generalization over time. Very slowly the idea of being a "man" is changing. It is separate from who you want to have sex with or find attractive. It is a hard thing for most people to understand and will take a lot of time but I think it will happen.
By the way, I think Kurt from Glee is a great character just not me and that is OK.
I'm not conceited. I'm just very, very good looking.
As a 58 year old male, married 26 years to a woman, with two grown children, I can understand Frat Star's feelings. No matter which road you take, you will always look back and wonder if you took the right turn. I am sure I did and I just have to be satisfied with looking and admiring, but not touching those hot men, and even those in my own league age wise.
signed "No Regrets"
The GLBT community has had to endure a great many negative stereotypes -- but we are a diverse group, with a common connection. This does not mean we are all the same or we somehow lose our individual identities once we accept ourselves for being bi or gay.
Despite being natural allies, we have sub groups competing for bragging rights on who is better or worse: masculine gays vs. femme gays; gays vs. bisexuals, gays vs. lesbians -- some figure, knock down the other group, our side looks good by comparison. Yet larger society doesn't really care, they lump us together -- and demonize us all with the broad brush of negative fallout.
So while some refuse to identify with the GLBT community because of the negative stereotypes -- after all it's guilt by association -- they lament how others give us a bad name and image, and thus reject being "one of them."
But larger society doesn't care -- if you do gay acts -- you are gay, and lumped into with the worse stereotypes. The solution is to change the public's perception of us -- yes we are different -- but we are more alike the rest of society.
We want freedom, equality, tolerance, to live without discrimination, to have a fair chance. We are your family, friends and neighbors. For society to accept us, they have to see us and for far too long, people have stayed hidden because of society's disapproval.
The only way to change that negative perception is to come out -- be seen and heard -- to provide a positive counter image.
So those closeted people, who fear coming out -- staying closeted just perpetuates the fear. Instead of fighting for your own rights, you let others take the risk, and you'll come out only when it's safe to do so.
Similarly I've heard many bisexuals complain how the world isn't a welcoming place for them. Yet few come out and fight for their point of view -- they want the benefits of gay sex but just not with the social stigma.
The GLBT community should be supporting one another because there is power in numbers -- accept the differences in our groups -- but celebrate and build upon our common connection.
@ Anonymous 3:13: Very well put.
Thanks for your defense of FratStar. It's well written, except for the plural "societies" where you meant "society's." I hope that he can figure himself out soon in a way that will lead to the greatest lifetime usefulness and happiness. I think that comes from limiting the sex to one person who can give him children, regardless of what else he may be tempted to look at.
I just don't like this guy; he is a brat with a major 'tude. His style shows that, and as I said, NO ONE who's college age should think or behave that way.
Remember Tyler Clementi? He's dead because of assholes like this, along with all the taunting they bring. I can't buy the innocent college age excuse; not in today's world. High school freshman have a better analytical process than his. Although he may have never taunted anyone personally or publicly, the attitude is still there. He's the type that gets thrown out of bars because someone someone said the wrong thing, it doesn't even have to be sexual.
Maybe it's me, but it seems somewhat suspicious that the two of you have hooked up together at one time or another. That's OK, it doesn't really matter, but it would explain your tolerance for this guy. If that's so, I'm really disappointed in your judgement. I don't agree with the life approach that some of my friends have, and for those people I remain friendly, but at a distance. I certainly don't patronize them. If push came to shove, we would simply agree to disagree.
You could call me a veteran of the bar/club crowd. We STILL go out at least once a week, and we've met a huge assortment of people. A lot of them are college kids, and they would never have this kind of attitude. A lot of them come up to us and start conversation, and the age difference doesn't come into play at all. I also know 3 cops and a fireman who are out and open to everyone, and they're totally cool with everyone--that is to say, ALL the types. Femmes, jocks, gym gods, drag queens, daddies--they're all there, and they're always friendly to all of them. It has no negative bearing on their own image what soever, and within our circle, it elevates their status to top notch. If they can do it, certainly Frat Star can.
Ultimately, I knew I was gay when I was in middle school. By high school, it was confirmed, and I struggled with ALL of the issues. I never thought is was my place to belittle anyone, to publicly humiliate anyone, or to speak about them in a negative way. Maybe it was my upbringing, my nature, I don't know what it was, but I know one thing. To this day, I can't be bothered with self obsessed people, and Frat Star seems to be one of them.
If he even apologized, it wouldn't help much. Once you say things and put them out for the world to hear, it never goes away. It's like being different--it doesn't go away. Any current college student should be able to come to terms with that.
Let me get this straight -- no pun intended: I'm gay. I'm out of the closet. When people meet me, they're shocked that I'm gay and completely smash their misconceptions of how a gay man acts.
However, you are accusing me of things that go so above and beyond the scope of anything that I've written in these articles that it's actually insane. You seriously are comparing me to the person responsible for Tyler Clementi's death? The heterosexual kid who streamed the video?
Further proof of the fact that there is nothing worse than a dramatic, old queen. Bob has done nothing but antagonize from day one, and this is a prime example of why I just don't care for these kinds of people. Perhaps the HIV is getting to his mind? Is it the foul stench of putrid New Jersey? Too much hair gel?
It's amazing -- you accuse me of being a coward, yet you were married for over 15 years! Imagine how many lives you've destroyed in the process! You seriously have the balls to criticize me while leading on your wife for the better part of two decades? How long is that? The administration of three or four presidents in length? How can you sleep with yourself at night?
So, Bob, I'm not the bully. You are. Thanks for reinforcing all of my conceptions.
Wow, Frat Star, you need to take a few deep breaths. What Bob wrote was offensive for sure. But you don't have to stoop to that level. The HIV crack is beyond low; it's pathetic, cruel and disgusting.
Frat Star,
You hit the nail on the head. Like someone said to the Manifesto post, these guys don't want to be called names (and they're RIGHT..they shouldn't be called names) but they are fully prepared to screw someone else's life up. Just ask their wives which they'd prefer: the pain of a few slurs or to have your life hijacked, be cheated on and then dumped when you're passed your prime and they've met the boy of their dreams.
Some of these guys, but by no means all, have been willing to excuse almost any behavior from these married men. Talk about lack of courage and riding on the coat tails of people who really suffered for their eventual equality. I'd suggest it's these guys not some 20 something college kid who already has more courage than any of them show.
Give me a freaking break. Frat Star is a young kid. He's trying to do the right thing. His attitudes are being developed. Just like all of ours were at 20. He'll mature and mellow but what I hope he never does is lose the moral compass that already at a very young age has taught him right from wrong.
Thanks Bev, it takes a woman among us to get past all the chest thumping and macho puffery.
To Bob, you are basically asking for some respect -- but you are not winning over many converts by your disrespectful comments. Linking Frat Star to Tyler Celmenti is ludicrous -- but I suppose you did that just to bait him. For someone taught not to speak about people in a negative way, you are doing a lot of talking.
To Frat Star, it's understandable you want to fire back at your critics when they resort to personal attacks, but the HIV comment is crossing the line, especially to the gay community. Other than that, your willingness to tackle difficult issues speaks to your courage and the more acceptable times we live in. You can only imagine what life was like for the older gay/bi generation -- today's fears about coming out pales to before, when one would be labeled a criminal, thrown in prison, lose employment, be institutionalized as a mental patient, etc.
Finally, let's all try to provide constructive criticism rather than resorting to personal attacks that simply escalate things; let's talk to one another rather than at each other, and hopefully a useful discussion will result.
Let's back the fuck up here.
I truly and deeply apologize for my HIV comment. I also want to take a moment to apologize to anyone I have offended: this is NOT the way that I wanted to start out writing for this blog. I'm not ashamed of making mistakes and I completely own up to how offensive this comment may have been to some of our readers.
I typically dislike adding little addendums to apologies because I feel that they cheapen them. However, I strongly resent the accusation that I'm sleeping with my colleague and that my personality is somehow responsible for the deaths of other young gay kids like myself. This is completely unacceptable.
Look, I've met a lot of very nice closeted men on this website. I understand that they have made certain life choices that have led to where they are now. However, "those who live in glass houses should not throw stones." You cannot encourage young men to adopt a closeted lifestyle. Please don't accuse me of being an asshole without looking at your own past actions.
You will not always agree with me. Perhaps you will completely disagree with me. That's fine. If you do not like what I have to say, then be civil. Teach me. If you have no interest otherwise, then shut the fuck up.
Bob -- go fuck yourself.
Frat Star you are not alone on this blog... First it was Bilikeme and then came Bob and Bob is a victim to the 9th degree and was most likely bullied as a kid growing up. Pay no mind to him as he stereotypes everyone.
Good job on the post and defend yourself in anyway you want you are unlike Bi and Bob you realized that the only way to be true to yourself and not drag someone else into a hidden lie is to be what you really are which is Gay... Just like the two above...
OK..my two cents:
Frat - I agree, and as I've told you privately, I don't believe your story can be told and your experiences be shared here and accepted unless you are more democratic in your speaking. That means, for the most part, not attacking people..
But, I don't want that to squelch your creativity. I think your apology went along way to correct your indiscretion. I think you'll find out, like I have, that for good or bad, this blog does have a great, loyal following and they have very strong, valid and emotional opinions. That's not only permitted on this blog, it is encouraged.
That same principal applies to Frat Star - his opinions are valid and important. So for readers of this blog, old and new, I appreciate if you'd give him a chance - he posts once a week - you've only scratched the surface - give it time to see how he develops, how he has and will change. His 2nd post (which in retrospect should have been his first) was controversial, yet, if you read his first post, you see how he now has accepted that he is gay. More to come.
After all, when I first started this blog, I think I was a different man than I am today, and lots of that change, internally, in my head is because of the insightful input of these readers.
Now, on to Bob - I tried to find an email address for you to write you personally. Over the past few years, you've come to my defense on many occasions - against the many detractors that read and comment here. I thought of you as the level headed senior of this blog - and I have to admit, I was taken aback by some of your comments. I don't think it is befitting of your prior personality or maturity (and yes, I have told Frat that his "fuck you" to you was inappropriate too).
Please..despite what you may initially feel - realize that Frat Star, like I have on this blog, is exposing himself on here - for nothing - not for money, not for fame. It is simply to share.
Now, girls, let's take a breath..before someone breaks a nail.
You have to keep in mind that you are making the assumption here that being gay equals a certain set of social behaviors and appearances. THAT is the error, THAT is the cause of false assumptions, and THAT is what pisses people off.
Obviously the group is diverse. There are plenty of examples of diversity. But I think it's an error to assign gayness with this certain set of social behaviors that, yes, do exist in a portion of the gay population, but do not apply to all.
You and others have taken the stance that being gay = Kurt from Glee, and that this is why you are not or could not be gay, or that if you're interested in maintaining masculinity, you are somehow above and beyond being gay.
Homosexuality simply means sexual attraction to the same sex. The expression of that nature changes from person to person. Deciding that masculinity is straight and femininity is gay is a mistake because it demeans those who are feminine and treats those who are masculine - in the view many closer to being "straight," aka heteronormativity - as being better, and perpetuates the idea that women/femininity/gayness is a BAD thing (which is to say that this view is also inherently anti-woman/misogynistic, believe it or not).
This is why people react negatively to being treated as different, when the people who are still part of that minority are responding to them with the same negativity that the straight majority already delivers. You HAVE to be careful when discussing gayness that you are differentiating between social behaviors and sexual behaviors. The two are not the same.
Scott -
there is a predisposition to believe gay = Kurt because that's what we are told. Those are the current role models of the gay community. When someone sees Kurt they can think "I'm not like him". But, in Frat's case and to his credit, he had the courage to say he's gay despite not having a role model he can look up to.
It's a process no? He's just started..give him a chance.
Oh for **** sake - you are all still discussing Frat Stars second post - which is an old one and obviously does not represent his current opinion any longer.
Anybody bothered to go back and read his first and more recent post?
I can't tell you from only two posts if I'm going to like all his opinions but I can tell you one thing: I think he has one of the best attitudes I read so far here towards women and marriage. And - here I'm going to out myself - as a woman (happily married for over 20 years to the same great guy) I really appreciate that attitude.
From Frat Star's first post:
See, the ideal marriage is like a dance floor. You lead the girl but the two partners are equal. You come up with a plan, and she tells you honestly how she feels about it. You guys are a team. Sometimes you guys will be in total concurrence. Other times, she’ll make suggestions. When you’re an asshole, she’ll tell you go to fuck yourself because you need an attitude adjustment. Other times, you’ll do the same to her. Either way at the end of the day, you guys are a great couple.
That describes how my hubby and me live and I think that should describe any kind of relationship - homosexuell as well as heterosexuell. It's more mature than some other comments I've read.
So - maybe Frat Star still has some issues - but isn't writing in a blog a good way to solve them?
And maybe some of you might feel offended because some of his comments are right but you acted different. It's never comfortable to see in the mirror and see that you were wrong. But be indulgent with yourself - you probably lived under different circumstances. As far as I understood the majority here is older than Frat Star. Instead of bashing him you should explain - so that he sees more than his way. And maybe understand that no discussion can start when no opinion is uttered.
So - I'm curious about his next post on Friday. Go Frat Star!!
Sun - I was discussing BLM's current post.
BLM - Yes, there is a predisposition to believe those things, and everyone goes through that process of resisting, then realizing that the spectrum of individual personalities is quite vast.
For clarity's sake, the way that you wrote your post suggested that these rules are hard and fast: gay = feminine, masculine = better, attraction to men + masculinity does not = gay. Again, the spectrum. I'm not attacking you, just stating that clarification is necessary when writing ANYTHING that could be perceived as inflammatory.
What rubs people the wrong way - what continues to rub people the wrong way - is the fierce loyalty to the idea that being gay but NOT liking stereotypical gay stuff is somehow BETTER or somehow makes one better than the rest of their minority group.
As regarding the current gay role models, there are multiple angles to take. Having a feminine gay role model is frustrating to masculine gay men who don't identify with it, but at the same time those gay men in the world who ARE feminine need to know that positive role models exist for who they are. To deny them that right is to deny their existence - not that you are doing either of those things. But everyone deserves to have a voice that is heard, even if everyone doesn't like it. The struggle between fem vs. masc is the same as gay vs. straight or men vs. women or minority A vs. majority B.
To blame gay men that fall into that particular set of behaviors is, in a way, calling the kettle black. Inherent masculinity or femininity aside, social behaviors are learned: the elevation of certain ideals by the small portion of the gay community that parties, or the behaviors associated with "masculininty" like drinking beer, or playing sports, or working on cars. Those are learned as well, so elevating either side's priorities is exactly the same no matter which side you're on. Another way of saying that is what's important to feminine gay men compared to/versus what's important to masculine gay men are ALL learned behaviors - "these are things that are important to this group/subgroup in order to be accepted by it."
I would be curious to know what your political leanings are, along with FratStar and the other commenters. I'm not suggesting anything at all other than that it would be interesting to see if everyone's perceptions of these issues are somehow reflected in their political leanings.
"You will not always agree with me. Perhaps you will completely disagree with me. That's fine. If you do not like what I have to say, then be civil. Teach me. If you have no interest otherwise, then shut the fuck up."
Again, not attacking - I think it would behoove ANYone following this thread to brush up on the concept of privilege (whether it be white, male, straight, cis, Christian, etc. etc.). It's a very complicated subject, but in discussions like this - anything involving a minority group or subgroup - it's an important concept to consider.
One part of this philosophy or argument is that it is NOT the responsibility of the unprivileged group to educate the privileged group. I won't get into all the details of privilege here, but consider this: if straight white males are the most privileged, then gay white males who ACT straight are very near to carrying the same amount of privilege. As a result, it is not the responsibility of the feminine gay man - the less-privileged subgroup (in the context of straight-acting-ness) to educate others about what is or is not offensive to them. It puts the burden or the already-burdened group.
FratStar might not even be asking to be taught in that way, but if he DID - i.e. teach him what he is doing or saying that is offensive - that shifts the burden to the offended parties. As a writer - especially one dealing with minority-group issues, whatever minority group that may be - you have to consider who you may or may not be offending. That doesn't mean sugarcoat - it means be VERY CLEAR in what you are arguing so that it can't be misconstrued as something that it isn't.
Scott is the most sensible and constructive person on this comments list and I highly encourage people to do as he suggests. No offense to anyone else.
Also, there's no need to say "fuck you" to someone who disagrees with you or thinks less of you. If you can tell them to just stop reading then I'm sure you can do the same because you just seem like an immature douchebag when you tell someone to eat a dick and mind their own business when you're putting your thoughts online in a very confrontational way; it invites criticism or plain old hate. And Frat Star's style, hell the name made me roll my eyes (I still read your thoughts though), is going to invite a lot of that.
Finally, it's been mentioned a lot but I hardly consider someone who's in his early 20s a "kid" so he cannot be excused, no matter how young one's 20s really is in comparison. I'm 23; I own up to what I write. I even know I'll cringe when I read it later but I'm not excused nor do I want to be.
We're all growing and learning, but if you're old enough to drink, you're old to think for yourself, you're old enough to say "fuck you" and deal with the backlash of that.
There's a warning before I get into this blog, and there are no "kids" allowed.
Thank you Scott & Hetero-Challenged, you both read my mind, and couldn't have said it better. I think all it proves is if you're going to dish it out, you had better be prepared to take it.
It's time to move on with this, don't you think? We'll never settle this, so let's just agree to disagree. As BLM suggests, let's share. Let's get on with the day and see what unfolds.
Another thought while I am here (and still not attacking anyone - just trying to moderate): some commenters say that we have to give him a chance because he is still learning/growing/etc., yet also say that he is wise beyond his years. While I personally believe we never stop gaining knowledge, you have to choose a side - you cannot support an argument as wise yet also make the excuse that it was offensive/inflammatory/whatever because the writer is still learning. Which is it, wise or excusable? At first, it reveals a support of the inflammatory writing (which potentially reflects badly on the supporters, depending on the content), but then excuses the behavior at the same time.
I think there has also been a little bit of derailing going on by attacking the commenters as being bullies or being too intense in their responses. Anon 2:06 is right - when you put something on the internet, you have to be prepared for the backlash. If someone is offended, they are going to respond intensely - to deny them that ability by telling them they are too intense or should shut the fuck up or are being bullies removes all responsibility from the writer for the content of their writing.
Scott,
Someone can be wise about some things and still evolving in other areas. Why would the two be mutually exclusive?
Frat Star has expressed a maturity or perhaps it’s really an ethical center that very many of his older compatriots lack. He, at a pretty young age, and after much internal pain and struggle came to understand that this was his “burden”. He could easily, as so many of these exhalted“str8 acting” guys do and married. He could have hid who he was and used another to shield him from whatever social stigma is still attached to being gay. He has made a conscious decision not to do that. He recognizes the unfairness of robbing a woman of the opportunity to experience the kind of love you all seek by depriving her of the chance to meet someone who could love her fully. He understands a fundamental truth that too many of the guys chose to ignore and excuse and rationalize.
It’s been my observation that gay guys who exhibit more feminine traits have little choice about coming out. Most people suspect anyway. The “str8 acting” or more masculine acting guy does often have a choice. And too often then chose what at the time seems the “easy” way: They use other people to hide. They lie so often to so many people about so much that I think some become habitual liars. They use others and rationalize their behavior. They are on one hand to be pitied and in some respects contemptible.
Yes, Frat Star’s a “kid”. He won’t be a “man” for some years yet. Come see me when you’ve buried your parents or your best friend. When you’ve known real love and lost it…When you achieved something entirely by your own hand with no help from your parents…Being a “kid” isn’t a pejorative nor does it excuse all bad behavior. But it does help the reader understand that while his opinions are evolving he doesn’t have a huge base of personal experience to call on. But that doesn’t mean his personal journey hasn’t been every bit as painful for him as yours was for you. He has just made the commendable decision not to drag innocent people along with him on his journey. Something more of you should have considered.
While I agree that putting something on the internet leaves the writer open to intense disagreement, something these married cheating men should expect, it helps if the outrage isn’t so selective to be laughable. It is unfair and is terribly painful to be marginalized. I understand that and hate the pain so many in your community have had to experience. But you cheapen and weaken your position when you are willing to sit by silently (or actually support and endorse) a man hiding his sexuality in a marriage to a woman. Excusing behavior that is so damaging and deeply disrespectful undermines any credibility you have. Someone who’s known real pain is loath to inflict suffering on others unless they’re deeply flawed.
So while I believe that is a “wise” decision, it is clear that Frat Star lacks the life experience to be “wise” in all things. But that doesn’t negate the value of the choices he’s made..choices that weigh his needs against others…. that seem, to me, beyond his years…..
Bev - at no point in any of my comments have I endorsed closeted marriage. I am against that. It's my personal belief that if you're gay, or bi, or trans, or whatever, it's your responsibility to come out (the whole visibility equals power thing), but at the same time I understand that everyone's lives are different and what works for some does not work for all.
Wisdom and inexperience are not mutually exclusive. All I was pointing out in my last comment is that many commenters have taken two mutually exclusive routes to defend the positions (mainly the gay-bashing comments) in the Manifesto and the sources of those comments (a belief that being gay equals a certain set of things). Obviously the Manifesto is old and things have changed, but to hold it up as supreme wisdom on one hand, but on the other say "well it's old and he was young and things have changed now" does not logically follow - you can't defend something but also make excuses for its short-comings, because that is not the same as a defense. Keep in mind I am discussing the defense of the document that has since been revealed as out-of-date - NOT anything that has been written since then.
You are correct that wisdom/experience is a constantly-evolving thing. That's why it is SO important to have these discussions about content and context BECAUSE it's part of the process of gaining experience, especially in writing.
At the same time, it's still incredibly important that people respond to these things in a logical way. If you write something inflammatory, people will be upset. You have to be ready to watch the pot you have stirred.
I think what upsets people still about the Manifesto AND about this current post we are commenting on is BLM's reposting of it and defense of it EVEN THOUGH FratStar has established that it is old and things are different. It implies a continued adherence to the things that have offended people before.
"We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be."
- Kurt Vonnegut, Mother Night 1961
While I agree that we should try to stick to logical rebuttals as an ideal, that's unrealistic when the topic is emotional in nature. What tends to cause disagreements are misunderstands of intent, especially in the written form where one loses all non verbal clues.
The writer might have made some assumptions, been loose on explanations, a little sloppy with choice of words in garbling the message leaving the reader to wonder why this or that was said. I knowing the why is important towards understanding the message.
So the reader will often times fill in the blanks, using his/her own experience and biases and start making assumptions back. So if he said this, he must have really meant that or feel that -- the reader now subscribing things to the writer that he or she never intended or is extrapolated to other issues.
So now the reader is outraged that the writer said or implied something the writer never intended. Likewise the writer is defensive because in his mind, he never said that and can't understand why someone would misinterpret that.
So this is a reminder to be careful in writing and to readers to stop reading between the lines so much. Take what's down on text without jumping to conclusions that you know the intent -- ask "Why do you feel that way?" or "What makes you think that?" before going into attack mode.
PS: Bev is right - Frat Star can be wise for coming to terms with his sexuality and still be a kid when it comes to learning about the world and life.
Dude, there's a huge difference between being gay and being fag, there are some boys that, despite their homosexuality, don't act as a princess, or wear faggy things, or act generally as cum hungry bitches. A friend of mine is gay, but he's manly anyways, so it's all depending of how you want to act. Being gay is not the same than being fag.
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